Rhonda-Redefining the Boardroom and the Tee Box

In this feature episode of AEC Women on Top, host Lauren Homme sits down with Rhonda Pollard, a 26-year veteran of the commercial construction industry, to dissect the deep-seated architectural and social biases built into the corporate landscape. Moving chronologically through Row's multi-decade trajectory—from a 19-year-old communications graduate facing intimidating leadership in Kentucky to a Strategic Operations Lead overseeing multi-state partnerships for PCL Construction's hundred-million-dollar Northwest district in Seattle—the conversation acts as an unvarnished analysis of corporate gaslighting, glass ceilings, and the emotional double standards forced upon technical women.

The core of the discussion explores the strategic intersection of networking, leisure, and executive access. Row shares the systemic revelation that inspired her board work with The Pro Shop, a nonprofit established after realizing women accounted for fewer than 3% of participants at industry-wide charity golf tournaments. Lauren and Row break down why traditional corporate advice often fails women, detailing how executive "leapfrogging" occurs on the golf course where critical, five-hour business interactions happen entirely out of reach of middle management. From confronting a regional "boys' club" culture to navigating chronic autoimmune conditions while facing strict corporate expectations of presenteeism, this episode provides an open blueprint for human-centric boundary setting. Ultimately, it serves as a masterclass on how modern leaders can shed the traditional corporate script, undo decades of conditioning, and confidently lean into their authentic professional identity.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'd love for you to start off by introducing yourself, who you are, and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

I'm Rhonda Pollard at Go By Row for those who know me the best. And I am a business development and community partner leader for PCL construction here in Seattle, cover the Northwest District. So that would be Oregon, Alaska, Idaho, Montana. But one of the things that I would consider myself more so than even that is really a connector of people in the community trying to do things to break barriers, both as we like to say, on and off the course with my board position at the Pro Shop, which is a nonprofit organization founded by five women in the AEC industry that were showing up to the many charity golf tournaments that happen in our industry and realizing there were only the same three or four women at any given time out of 144. And they're like, that's kind of crazy, what's going on? So very quickly after they formed, I joined as a board member and was kind of behind the scenes trying to help. And they were dragging me into the game at the same time. First 22 years, I've said no to golf. And now four years into having that as part of my repertoire for my career progression, it's unbelievable how much it has impacted me in a positive way. I thought golf was kind of silly, didn't grow up with it, and was never exposed to it. And I thought it was just a bunch of guys going and kind of goofing off and watched some of my counterparts that were just to be, you know, I guess transparent and a little bit direct, kind of leapfrogging over me into positions of greater power. And I thought, how in the world is this happening? And I realize it's because they're spending so much time with the people at the top, which happen to still be predominantly male. As you know, in AEC, Seattle, Tacoma, and Bellevue are about one point higher in terms of women in the industry, which gets us at 13.8 in construction. National average is 12.7. And so golf is where business is happening. And you spend five hours with somebody, you get to know them really fast. And I just wasn't getting that kind of one-on-one time with my leadership or with the big decision makers out in the market. And so because that has been such a big part of my life, and because I feel like I have been given a lot of opportunities, and now I'm in a position where I can start to help. I focus a ton of my time and energy on helping to uplift women. In addition to the golf stuff, you know, what I do for PCL is I am the strategic business leader. So I look for emerging markets and the markets that we have here that align with our value proposition and make sure that our incredible team of what we call doersellers are pointed in the right direction and we're all out in the market, becoming community partners, looking for clients that we can build long-term partnerships with and be able to help leave a legacy that uplifts our community together by the work that we do, which is of course building things like infrastructure and type one high-rise and things like that. Get involved in a lot of things. Anything I see where I feel like there's advocacy needed, I figured out my personal why about 10 years ago because of another incredible woman in the AAC industry, because I was kind of going around pretty timid, even though a lot of people said, Oh, you're really confident and all of this. I was not happy on the inside. I was really unhappy. And I was climbing the corporate ladder and doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do. And I had a pretty successful career making, you know, more money than I expected, you know, ever in my lifetime. And I was completely miserable because I realized that I was not fulfilling my purpose. And I actually didn't even know what that was because I had never taken the time to listen to my own voice or figure out what I wanted or needed. I was too busy letting everybody else tell me what I needed to do. And so you're right. And I think that you see me with my hands in a lot of pots now because I feel like I'm kind of in my, I'm still in a discovery phase of figuring out what's important to me. But I do know now my personal why is to fix the system that was broken for me and to have a voice for those who don't. And so everything that I do, as long as it points back to that North Star, I'm okay with like running myself ragged and trying some stuff that I don't believe anymore in failure, that word. I only believe in lessons, like everything that you do, you learn a lesson. And sometimes things don't turn out the way that you expected, and that's okay, because the lesson that you learn through that is even more rewarding than if it maybe did turn out the way that you thought. And so that's why you see me doing a lot of variety of things and getting involved to break some barriers, but also to try to figure out like what is my real passion, you know, in life.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

I love that you talk about failure as a non-issue. There's no such thing as failure, right? You try something, it doesn't work, you adjust and try again. And that's kind of what business development strategy is all about.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

If you're not good with rejection, then you definitely can't do this job. And you know, you're right, because I think about it as business development has been, I think, one of the more predominantly female roles in the AEC industry. And I don't, PCL is not guilty of this, but I know others are in that the reason why they hire women to do that is because, and especially most of them are, you know, most of them are attractive, you know, out of the gate, attractive, like, you know, and I think they they hire because it's kind of like a shiny fishing boar rather than it is like, you know, hiring you for your your brain. And I see that, and I'm not saying that I know I work with a ton of incredible women in AEC that do business development that are super smart and really strategic. And I've I've seen that in Seattle be very different, but in some of the other markets that I've been exposed to and worked in, I think that the entry level, and it took me years to figure this out. And I'm grateful here in Seattle that that's not as prevalent. I do see it still, but you know, it is it is hard. I've worked for men since then, and even the good ones have implicit bias built into them, and it's just because of the system that's built for all of us is built with that bias. And what I'm grateful for now is that PCL has 55% women in their leadership in key positions in our Seattle district or Northwest District. And the men in our group and the women have a place of trust where we can talk to each other if somebody says something because we know intentions are positive and no one's intending to do anything like that. But when something does happen, or when somebody isn't seeing your value or whatever, and you're having to explain yourself because men and women are different. I mean, there just are differences, people are different, and it's just nice to be able to have a place where you can talk, you know, transparently and and it's safe and be vulnerable and be safe and say, you know, I'm happy to prove to you kind of what I was trying to do here. And I know when you made this comment, you weren't intending to say something that was, you know, had bias, but it did. And here this is not made me feel. So anyway, I say all of that because I see a lot of work to your point when you and I were coming up in the industry. This is my 26th year in here, there weren't a lot of women for us to mimic their behavior that was positive. And that's not a knock against the women that paved the path and pioneered it for you and I. They had to behave a certain way because of the way the system was built for them and where it was at. It has evolved since you and I have gotten into it. I know you're from the South too. So what happened for you in Texas and happened for me in Kentucky is likely very different than what's happening here in Seattle, thank goodness. But there is still a lot of that that that goes down. And I think our responsibility now that we are in this season is to make sure that the little girls that are growing up to come in behind us have good role models and good behavior and realize that like you don't need to rely on being cute or pretty or wearing you, you should dress the way you want to dress and do the things you want to do. I'm not saying don't dress feminine because I was told that at one point too, coming into you know, the industry is that like you've got to be careful what you wear and you you can't wear a dress or you can't wear a skirt or you can't, you know, wear too much makeup. And then I was told at certain times to wear a skirt and to wear a dress and to, and I think like by women, you know, and it's just like not okay, you know, it's like you should be able to so anyway. I just I I'm really grateful you're putting this together and putting it out there.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

I feel like you and I have been coached a lot. And some of that coaching needs to be undone. Some of it's old, right? And I think the new message is lean into who you are because that's really the value that you can bring to the table. Um, which is quite different than look the part, be the part, stick to the script.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah, no, that's exactly what I was trying to say. And you did it really concisely and articulated that really well. It was I I felt a little bit like the stepbird wives for those who are familiar with that.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

It sends a it sends a very interesting message, especially for the person who's supposed to go out and confidently talk about the company and the value that they have. So if we're busy sitting there wondering if our hair is okay and if we wore the right shoes and if, you know, if we dress the part, then we're not even connecting as people, right? We're not bringing bringing our authentic self to that conversation to even connect on a human level.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

We're just playing a part at some point, which we're nowhere near that. But if at some point we come to a place where we're not aligned on something, I'm not gonna compromise, you know, what is important to me. Um and I wouldn't expect them to compromise what's important to them either, but we can have a healthy conversation and say, this just isn't a good match for either of us anymore, you know. And I know you've had to do that in some of your roles, you know, in the past. And I've had to do that, you know, in one of my roles not that long ago. But finally, I don't wake up every single day and am like, oh my gosh, if I lose my job, everything's over. It's I'm confident enough in myself to know that I bring a value to this world that is needed somewhere. And it might not be where I think it it is now, but I will figure it out. Like I have enough grit and and confidence and kind of success and experience and lessons learned from things not working out to know that I will, if I hit rock bottom, I'll be able to bounce back up.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

So I want to touch on your trajectory. So where did you start your career and how did you get from there to sitting in the beautiful office that you're sitting in now? I went to school.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

I was the first in my family to go to college. And so I was like, I want to be a news anchor. I think I can do that. I get to wear really cute suits, I get to like speak very, you know, confidently about big topics and like and it just it looked like something I wanted to do. And you and I have talked about this, but I ended up answering an ad in the newspaper for a customer service position at a commercial interiors firm, which is how I ended up with my job and worked for her for 15 years. And again, she shaped me. She called me like a diamond in the rough, but she also led by fear and intimidation.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

And let's pause on that because I feel like women in the past to make it in corporate had to lead a certain way. They had to show up a certain way. Right? Yes. And it's so interesting even now some of the comments that women who are our seniors say and do and behave and very excited to see what the younger generation evolves into.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

But you're right, she had to do that to survive. She said it many times to me. She said, you know, if I was a man behaving the way that I was behaving, people would say it was a badass businessman. But because I'm a woman, I'm a bitch. And, you know, and she was overly aggressive. And I will admit, I fell into being overly aggressive and especially toward men. Like I don't think I was overly aggressive toward women. I instead of trying to guard my seat at the table that I scratched and clawed my way to get, I always tried to open up the seat next to me for a woman to come join me rather than to put my foot on her forehead and push her. And so I left that job and I came, I started looking for a job out on the West Coast before I left and I found one. And weirdly enough, it it was doing the same thing, but for a much bigger firm. And instead of $22 million firm, I was going to a hundred million dollar firm and I had the opportunity there to be an owner at some point. And I thought this would be a really good chance for me to do that. So I left, I came out, I worked for that company for 10 years. And honestly, it was extraordinarily abusive. Like when I first got there, it was not the gentleman that owned it is like a father to me, gave me a lot of chances, cared about people, everybody that he worked for or worked for him, same thing. It was a little, I learned a lot there in Seattle. And I watched some of the men throw temper tantrums in the meetings whenever we they wouldn't get their way. And their voices were being heard. And I sat in that room for two hours every single week for five years, and I would say stuff, and it literally would be like a year later, one of my male colleagues would come in and say something I said, and it was like the first time they had heard it. And I'm not trying to get credit or have an ego, I was just like, how can they not hear my voice? Is it like the sound of a high frequency dog whistle that they just can't? It was weird. It was like I'm not getting through to them. So I started mimicking the behavior of the men in the room. And one time, I'm not kidding you, one time I come in and after we mess up a project really, really bad, and I'm trying to tell them like we need to get on this, we need to jump on the recovery of this. And they're not listening. And finally I start crying, and I'm like, I'm crying, and I storm out of the room to go like to our wellness room to recover. And then they come in and they're like, wow, I can't believe you had that emotional outburst. And I was like, okay, you heard me finally. I've watched all the guys do that, and then I got overlooked for a promotion because of that. They even took me on a leadership development trip under false pretenses down to our corporate headquarters and ambushed me. I'm using strong words, but this is what happened, and said, We've changed our mind, we're restructuring, we're eliminating your position in Washington. But good news, we'd like you to move to our corporate headquarters and come be closer to the owners in the C-suite. And we think this is gonna be better for you. And you're gonna get to, instead of being a sidekick, you're gonna have your own division, you're gonna be doing this and this and this. And we think this is great for you. And the sticking point was, and this is what finally I think made me start listening to my inner voice and my intuition is one of the leaders said to me, I know we're asking you to make a decision. He asked me to make the decision in three days, did not have it on my radar. And he said, I know that this is tough and we're asking you to do something big, but in the grand scheme of transitions, this is one of the easier ones we've ever done because you don't have a family for us to consider. And that statement made me realize they don't care about me, they don't care about me as a human. They're trying to tell me what they think is good, and this doesn't feel good to me. My gut is telling me that this is not good. And when they stopped and asked, what are my first feelings? Some calm came over me, and the first words that came out of my mouth were freedom and relief. And I and I finally made a choice for myself instead of allowing somebody else to tell me what was good for me. And I then all of a sudden PCL hears about this and comes after me, and I get to know them. And I they waited for me for five months. They let me take the time that I needed to take to recover from that. And my father got sick and passed away. And before I was even hired there, they let me move my start date four times. They were extraordinarily supportive. I didn't interview anywhere else. So in 26 years, my third career move ever, I took it without going out and like testing the market for what else was out there. And some people told me that I was insane for doing that. But my gut and my intuition told me that PCL was where I needed to be and that these were my people. And I didn't listen to anybody. I was like, you know, for once in my life, I'm like, I'm not listening to any of you. You know, I'm just gonna do what feels right for me. And it'll be a year in 30 days, and I could not be happier with every aspect of my life right now.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

That's great. I love to hear your story. There's a few things about it that I obviously don't like and I want to touch on and see if you have some tips on what others can do to avoid these things. So how do we stop jumping through hoops and chasing these like moving goals and be really diving into our people-pleasing skills to accommodate companies?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

When somebody asks you to jump through a hoop and there's a moving goal and they're unclear, you definitely gotta have the ability to have a conversation to try to like figure out what's going on with that and the safety. If I were to look back and and say, what do I regret? Because I try how to have zero regrets, is that when I was starting, my gut was starting to tingle and tell me like this isn't right, and you need I didn't believe myself, you know. I thought I was wrong. I thought I was the problem. And I I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm not. You do have to look in the mirror, and sometimes you are the problem. But when you over and over and over again are like, this just isn't something's not right here, you need to like really listen to yourself, listen to your inner voice.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

One of the other things that you touched on was that they thought you were the ideal candidate for this, and they coordinated this whole elaborate pursuit of you to convince you of something because you didn't have a family. And I know a lot of times when we think about how can we better support women in corporate, a lot of times that conversation is around moms. But I think there's the other side of the discussion that is when you don't have a family, you're expected to do more. Can you talk a little bit about how you navigate that?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Yeah, and I think what you're talking about is really important because, you know, although I'm not a mother, I wanted to be a mother. And I thought that that wasn't going to be possible actually, because I felt like I had to choose a world. And but you are right, because I don't have children and because I don't have a partner, people think like my time is their time and that they can pretty much like dictate how I spend it, and that it's okay because the things that I must be doing in that free time that aren't business related aren't as important as people that do have family. I have to governor myself like from overdoing it, or else I'll throw myself into an episode. And then then I'm not good for anybody. I'm not good for PCL, I'm not good for myself. And so I think navigating that in in the world just our business, AEC, is really demanding. You know that it's like it's not a nine to five Monday through Friday gig. It's not. And it's people that do have children and people that don't, everyone needs to like take care of themselves or else it's it's not gonna be. And it's taken me a long time to get confident around that too, because I think another thing that women face, especially in our industry, and we touched on a little bit, is that if you take the time off to do the things you need to do, you're missing out on something and you're not being seen at that thing, and that is going to make you less relevant. And that is something that although women have to be careful, that that's not always the case. It is still, it is still true. It is true in everything, whether you're a man or a woman, or or you identify, you know, otherwise, if you're not present, you do get passed over for promotions or opportunities and things like that. And that's just the way that it goes. And so being able to make sure that your performance and value is being seen with and balanced with your presentism at things is critical.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

How do you think that the system could better support women?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Figuring out ways that we can continue to modify networking events. How do you embed more resources into the workplace for childcare, for aging parents, you know? How do we make sure that not every single networking opportunity is a happy hour after work, you know, like or an early morning that's going to cause you to miss dropping your child off at school or getting your your mom set up for the day so that she can be successful and and take care of herself. You know, I think like continuing to have those open and honest conversations and looking for ways to just modify the way that we that we interact with each other, I think would be something that still needs a lot of work. The people that you spend your time with and how you spend your time is what's most important in life. And I never realized how priceless time was, especially with those who you love. And I'll be honest with you, for the first 22 years of my career, I did not prioritize the people that I love the most in my life. And that is, if I have two regrets, that'll be the other, is like, you know, I'm not gonna do that moving forward. I've sacrificed everything. The reason I don't have a family and I don't have a partner is because I was not a good partner for somebody. I did not put them first. I put my job first and I put my career first. And that that was a mistake. So if you could go back and tell your younger self anything, what would it be? Trust your intuition. Put your time first and foremost and spend it with those who you love because you never know when that's gonna be over.