Anne Marie-Redefining Leadership and Strategy in AEC

In this episode, host Lauren Homme sits down with Anne Marie, the Director of Business Development and Marketing for SV Design Architecture and Interiors, to discuss her non-linear career path and insights on navigating the AEC industry. Moving from early experiences in community advocacy to product design, and eventually returning to her architecture roots, Anne Marie shares the unique challenges of balancing an "artist's heart" with corporate strategy.

The conversation dives into the operational distinctions between business development and marketing, the impact of prioritizing community-centric projects like affordable housing, and why the industry must shift away from traditional, masculine-skewed definitions of leadership to embrace "sleeper leaders." Packed with moments of vulnerability and sharp professional advice, this episode serves as an empowering guide for women looking to lead authentically, champion empathy as a strength, and build lasting, trust-based relationships in a highly competitive field.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to AEC Women on Talk, the podcast celebrating women shaping the future of the built environment. I'm your host, Lauren Homie. I'm a marketing and business development strategist with over 15 years of national experience. Along the way, I've met some powerhouse women. And each episode, I'll sit down with them to explore their career journeys, the support they wish they had, and some of the tough lessons they learned. Whether you're just starting out or already leading the charge, these stories are meant to inspire. Anne-Marie, thank you so much for joining us today. Can you introduce yourself to the audience and tell us what you do?

SPEAKER_00 0:38

I am the director of business development and marketing for SB Design Architecture and Interiors, which is an integrated full service firm in Massachusetts.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

How did you get there? Because when we met, we both worked at a healthcare architecture firm and you were in Nashville.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

That's right. Been a journey. So I made it back to Massachusetts with that healthcare architecture firm. I uh was in the process of transferring uh offices from Nashville to Boston. And, you know, there were uh some hoops to jump through that happened, and eventually I made it back and uh working out of the Boston office of the healthcare architecture firm. I had started to feel like I wanted to have a broader experience and experience different markets within the business development and marketing world. And so I kind of started putting feelers out. I honestly, it it was a lot of logistical reasons too. Uh I was commuting into Boston. Uh, I live about, as the crow flies, I live about 29 miles from Boston. You would think that that would be a breeze to get into, but there were days where it would take me two and a half hours one way. I think your quality of life is directly related to how much time you spend in the car. So I started looking for positions closer to where I was. And just by happenstance serendipity, there was a business development slash marketing role open uh in at a local firm, which is SV Design where I work now. And they do, or we do, a lot of affordable housing, multifamily, commercial, institutional, nonprofit work, as well as high-end single family residential. So it's two ends of a spectrum. It wouldn't, it was a total challenge for me coming from healthcare architecture, which, you know, was a completely different animal. But uh, I was really excited for the challenge and excited to dive into the residential world, which is something I really hadn't had any experience in. So the job was a tall order, you know, overseeing business development and marketing for several different markets and three offices. And so I also do talent recruitment. Big, big challenge, uh, but I'm glad that I that I took it on. Um, but it was also important for me to land at a place um that was also doing good things. I, you know, I liked working for a healthcare architect that was building healing or designing healing spaces. And so I didn't want to go to, you know, a firm that just builds office towers or or, you know, things like that. So um the the piece of this firm that I really love is the affordable housing piece. And um, we do a lot of local work. So I can drive down the road, literally, I drive down the road and I can see five different, you know, affordable housing, multifamily housing buildings that we've done. And um, and so to see it kind of in my community and see how this work is helping, truly helping the community is pretty great.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Can we back up and talk about where did your career start? Who is Anne Marie at 18?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

I don't know that I know the answer to that, but you know, I always knew that I wanted to be in design in some capacity. I feel like I have these two sides of myself. I have um the design lover part, and then I have kind of this deeply sensitive, empathetic part of me. And I always knew that I wanted to kind of combine those in some way. Um my path is certainly not linear, but I whose is? But I started, I graduated, I'm like, where do I begin? I graduated high school early. I was 17. And when I look back, I was that's a child. And to have to figure out what you want to do and what you want to study and where you want to go and what you want to learn was such an overwhelming thought to me. I I was still, you know, I barely out of playing with Barbies, essentially. And and so it took me a long time to kind of figure out what direction to move in. So I ended up taking a year a gap year. I was 17, I, you know, I had the time to do it. And I worked um during that year, I worked for an AmeriCorps program called City Year, and I taught domestic violence uh prevention curriculum uh as a 17-year-old in inner city middle schools and high schools. And and that, I think that experience really kind of shaped what I wanted to do. It was very intense, obviously, and as a as a deeply feeling, empathetic person, there were days where it was too hard to do, but I knew I wanted to be adjacent to that somehow. And, you know, if I was always into art and design, and I thought, okay, well, maybe I can design these spaces where people feel loved and safe and comfortable because I was, you know, dealing with um, I I I taught domestic violence curriculum and then I worked at an advocacy in the afternoons. And so, you know, directly impacted by by situations that, you know, people would would come in and and talk about how unsafe they were, essentially. And so feeling like I we can create safe spaces for people. And so I ended up going back to school or going to school, and again, you know, not fully understanding what I wanted to do, knowing I wanted to move in that direction. So I started in a design program. And uh eventually that turned into uh sustainable design. You know, I was and still am very um very interested in sustainability um and wellness design. And so that's kind of that's kind of where I started and ended up working out of school for this uh healthcare architecture firm and then got completely burned out. I ended up just, you know, I grew up in Boston, I moved to California, completely abandoned what I was doing, um, and ended up doing product design instead. So still um, you know, taking design principles but applying them on a smaller scale. And I did that for many years and was completely unfulfilled. I was working for an apparel company, so I was in the fashion industry, which is notoriously superficial. Um, and you know, for somebody like me, it was torture to be in that world. And so I ended up falling back on that architecture dream, um, the design dream of creating safe spaces for people, and ended up when I I moved to Nashville and started designing uh spaces there. I had my own um interiors little studio for for a while. So kind of a roundabout way of getting there. And then in all honesty, life happened and I got a divorce and needed to find a more secure job. And so I reached out to the architecture firm that I had worked for. They had just opened an office in Nashville and I said, Hey, I'm here and you're here. And they said, Well, we don't need any design help, but we need a business developer. Do you think you could do that? And at the time, I had no idea what that meant. I needed a job. And the person who said that to me, um, the the previous CEO of this company was somebody who I had always admired, powerhouse woman in in the architecture world. And she sat me down and said, I know you can do this. I wouldn't ask you to do this if if I didn't think you could. And that is really what gave me the confidence to enter into business development. And I've been doing it ever since.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

It's a struggle to have an artist heart and do a job like business development.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

And it's a it's a daily struggle. It really is. And I think for me, an internal mission, I think for me, is to go about it in a different way and kind of show the world that you can do business development and you don't have to be a shark. You don't have to be a hustler, you don't have to be a chaser, you don't have to be a go-getter. You can approach it in a very different way and have the same level of success, if not more. It might be a longer play, a different road, but at the end of the day, the relationships that you build are stronger.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

What problem do you solve?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

What problem do I solve? Um, well, let's see. I think I do so many different things in a day, but I think in a way, I solve a problem of disconnect. I think. There, and there are so many ways to to explain that, but disconnect between, you know, a client and the right architect or, you know, a uh the right job for this firm, you know, figuring out what those steps are to get to the client we, you know, the ideal client, the ideal job, the the ideal process, you know, all of that. It's it is a puzzle in a way, kind of figuring out who the right people are to put in front of somebody, what kind of work we're trying to win, what what are what are we good at? And instead of trying to go after everything, really narrowing, narrowing that down for the multifamily commercial side of this firm. And then for the residential side, it is creating a consistent brand story, um, which are, you know, business development and marketing. This is like the age-old thing, right? People, people think it's the same thing, and it's so not. The residential side is certainly more marketing, but bridging that gap between the client and the right architect. You know, we have several designers here. And and one thing about this firm in particular that we pride ourselves on is that we design contextually. So we don't have a style necessarily, um, but we really sit and listen to the client and understand who they are, first of all, how they live their life, and then where they live, you know, if it's if it's a piece of property they've bought or if it is, you know, a renovation and it's on the ocean, you know, making sure that we're we're designing for the context of the project. And so a client doesn't know where to start sometimes. So they're, you know, reaching out to a bunch of different architects, interviewing a bunch of different architects, and um, and because of our brand story, we're able to make that connection.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

You are so right about the difference between marketing and business development. They are not the same thing. Not at all. They do exist in the same pod. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yes, and they need one another, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

They're besties, but they are not the same person. Exactly. Exactly. How could the system better support women?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Um, I think first of all, I think maybe changing the definition of what leadership means, you know, I think we have a very one-track way of viewing leadership. And often that is a more masculine skewed view, I think. Not every leader is extroverted and loud and and you know, the biggest personality in the room. There's a lot of sleeper leaders and and not every woman, but I do think, you know, probably more women than not are more of a sleeper leader. And educating ourselves to understand that they're all all sorts of leaders. I think recognizing the value of what women bring to the table. We do bring a different skill set. I, you know, I am I consider myself a feminist. I want equity and equality, but that means something different. To me, it means accepting the qualities of a woman in the same way we accept the qualities of, you know, quote unquote a male, you know, masculine. Feminine properties are are just as important in a different way. And so, you know, I think really valuing that, championing the soft skills that we bring to the table. Again, you know, educating ourselves that they're just as important.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

What would you tell your younger self? We talked about your younger self earlier. Yeah. So let's imagine 17-year-old Anne Marie at the domestic violence curriculum training. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Yeah. Um, you know, I get really emotional actually when I think of my younger self. Um, I went through a very difficult time um and really feeling very, very lost and um and not supported. And so, you know, first and foremost, I I I do it every day. I tell my younger self that she is safe and loved and supported. In fact, I I have on my cell phone my opening screen, that's a picture of me as a as a kid. And so it's a reminder to, you know, be kind to to her and love her. So I think telling her that, you know, her empathy is a strength and not something to tone down or to be embarrassed about, you can you can be a gentle person in the world and and take up space.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

I love that.

unknown 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

I love I always love talking to you, but one of the things that I'm particular, particularly enjoying in this conversation is the amount of self-reflection and the self-talk that you have and how it is just so ingrained in who you are as a person. Can you talk a little bit about how that supports you or maybe ways that other people could adopt some of those practices to help them get through their workday?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

I think it's one step at a time, right? We, when I say we, I mean me. I, you know, used to feel like I needed the whole plan in front of me. And that's just not how life works. And you just have to put one foot in front of the other and you have to go in the direction that feels good to your soul. And sometimes that's really hard to hear. And so getting really quiet with yourself, I think, you know, and really understanding what makes me feel confident, what makes me feel safe, what makes me feel excited, you know, what what am I passionate about? Pull that thread, go in that direction, even if you don't feel like it's going to get you anywhere, or you know, or you're afraid about making money or, you know, whatever it is. Even if you start a hobby and it's moving in that direction of what you love, the thread unravels. It really does. And you step on the path without even knowing it.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Oh, I love that. You step on the path without even knowing it. Yeah, it's so true. And I feel like through my career, there's times when I've met with a mentor or something and I get so frustrated because I need like a 10-step plan. Right. And that's not always the answer.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

And for me, sometimes I'm so nervous about making a decision. You know, there's a million different decisions in front of me. Should I take this job? Should I not take this job? Should I stay in this job? I'm so unhappy, or, you know, whatever it is. But you just there is at the end of the day, there kind of is no wrong decision. You just make the decision and then you pivot, or you know, it you just make it and you go. And every single, every single decision you make, everything that happens is an opportunity to learn, you know. Okay, I didn't like that direction. I'm gonna go in this direction, but I learned this about myself. So, you know, I I really don't believe that there is much of a wrong direction.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah, I feel like the longer you stand at the fork, the more anxiety, doubt, you know, all the negative feelings. Exactly. The bigger they grow.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

So just do it. And there is a sense of relief, right? When you just make a decision.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

I've made lots of bad decisions, but I agree that maybe the worst one is staying put when you know it's time to move on.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yes. Listening to yourself, listening to all the cues that your body is giving you when you aren't in the right place and you know it, you know, how long have we stayed in something knowing that it wasn't the right thing because we were too scared to, you know, do something else? Your body is so smart and telling, you know, giving you clues all the time and learning, you know, I think as as women, we don't necessarily listen to that because we've got all these other things happening and all these other things we have to take care of. And oftentimes we're the very best thing to get attention.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

What would you unlearn sooner?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Gosh. That's a great question. What would I unlearn? I'm just going through all the things that I felt that I needed to be, needed to do, you know, and and again, I think it's just uh taking the time for myself, you know, and and putting myself first in a way. You know, the the email's gonna be there the next day, you know, the presentation is going to get done. And it's all the worrying about it. And and that's my personality too. You know, I was I was definitely a perfectionist as as a kid, which, you know, in adulthood has translated to ADHD as a newly diagnosed ADHD or but I was so worried about not being perfect and not getting an A, you know, not having the best project or, you know, and and again with age, realizing that none of that stuff defines you, you know, nobody remembers what my eighth grade book report was about, I'm sure. You know. But if I run into somebody from eighth grade that I haven't seen since then, and you know, she says to me, you know, you were a great friend, or you know, that's what people that's what people remember.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, because people are to your point, people will likely not remember the half done presentation. Right. Maybe. Right. But they will definitely remember how you made them feel.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yes, yeah. And I think that translates, right, in in what we do because people want to work with the people they like, you know. And that is part of building relationships. You know, people aren't gonna give you the time of day or they're not gonna give you that job if they don't like talking to you. So those things matter, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yeah. Uh asking for a friend, do you have any tips on how to be likable?

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Well, I think it's pretty basic. I think listening, I think being a genuine person. In business development in particular, they say what it takes, you know, seven times to make a connection, you know, seven different touch points. And and a lot of those touch points are have nothing to do with work. You know, it's seeing somebody at an event and asking how their dog is or how their kids are. And they and they like that you remembered that.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Do you have any final words that you would like to share with other women in the industry? Any topic at all?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Hmm. Let's see. I think gosh. I think trust your instincts. I think that's it. You know, there are so many times that I didn't do that and I ended up in places where I was miserable. And just now at almost 44, I'm learning to trust my instincts. I'm learning to trust that I do know what I'm doing most of the time. And I've been telling myself a lie that I don't, you know. Imposter syndrome is real.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Thanks for listening. Until next time, go shine your light.